Talk:Battle of 42nd Street

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Peer review

Battle of 42nd Street

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get it to GA, and if possible FA (FA seems like a bit of a stretch considering I have never gotten one before).

Thanks, History6042😊 (Contact me) 01:05, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

Alright, this review is done and I would like to close it. History6042😊 (Contact me) 13:12, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

Kimikel

I will be performing a review here within the next few days. Kimikel (talk) 01:22, 12 July 2025 (UTC)

  • Sorry for the delay, I've just gotten time to review this. Here are some initial comments. I will review the bulk of the article and the sources next. Thanks for your patience. Kimikel (talk) 02:08, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
    @Kimikel,  Done, thank you. History6042😊 (Contact me) 12:48, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
  • @History6042:: I've finished the next section. Sorry for the piecemeal way in which I'm reviewing it but I don't have too much time for Wikipedia. I should finish the next two sections by Saturday. 01:37, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
    No problems with doing the review in pieces, honestly it’s easier for me, thank you. History6042😊 (Contact me) 02:11, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
    @Kimikel.  Done. History6042😊 (Contact me) 14:47, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Image, infobox, etc.

  • Image and associated parameters look good. May want to consider cropping out the label at the bottom. Also needs alt text.
  • Is there a reason for the bibliography being in the order that it is? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it should be in alphabetical order.
  • Full citations for Bassett 1948 and Bell 1991 should both be in the Bibliography section

Lead

  • I feel the lead sentence could be a little longer, e.g. the FA Battle of the Bismarck Sea: "The Battle of the Bismarck Sea (2–4 March 1943) took place in the South West Pacific Area (SWPA) during World War II when aircraft of the U.S. Fifth Air Force and the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) attacked a Japanese convoy carrying troops to Lae, New Guinea." At a minimum, adding the belligerents, and perhaps briefly how/why the battle began, would help contextualize it a good deal more with just a single sentence.
  • Afterwards the Anzac troops > Afterwards, the Anzac troops

Background

  • could provide their navy > I would switch to "the Royal Navy" to make the sentence less ambiguous
  • heavy equipment > what kind of equipment? or does the author only give us "heavy equipment"?
  • (Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH)) > breaking out the translation and acronym like this seems unnecessary, since the acronym isn't used again in the article
  • Soviet Union and was > Soviet Union, and was

Opposing forces

Allies
  • Freyberg > Needs full name and wikilink
  • CretZe landing strip > perhaps a typo for "Crete"?
  • No Royal Air Force (RAF) units were based permanently on CretZe landing strip at Rethymno, all on the north coast, were ready and another strip at Pediada-Kastelli was nearly finished. > This whole sentence seems a little unclear and might need to be broken into two.
  • and the only one with a concrete runway, was at Heraklion > wikilink Heraklion
  • It was still improvised in nature, with the fuel store located outside the positions defending the airfield for example. > It was still improvised in nature; for example, the fuel store was located outside the airfield's defense positions.
  • space of a week 27,000> space of a week, 27,000
  • Greece, many lacking any equipment other than their personal weapons, sometimes not even those. > Greece; many lacked any equipment other than their personal weapons, and some lacked even those.
  • 14,000 this > 14,000, this
Germans
  • the 12th Army commanded > the 12th Army, commanded
  • Student who was > Student, who was
  • Division, and some paratroopers remove comma

Battle

  • blunt the attack there> blunt the attack [to avoid double use of "there"
  • however, at Maleme > remove however
  • south-east of Chania where > south-east of Chania, where
  • came near to their > approached their
  • charged the Germans, on their flank attacking with bayonets and small arms, and heavy close quarters fighting ensued > charged the Germans on their flank, attacking with bayonets and small arms; heavy close quarters fighting ensued.
  • The Maori Battalion also joined in the charge, after performing a haka, followed by the other battalions, and supported by machine guns of the 2/1st Machine Gun Battalion. > After performing a haka, the Maori Battalion also joined the charge, followed by the other battalions and supported by machine guns of the 2/1st Machine Gun Battalion.

Aftermath

  • That afternoon though,> That afternoon,
  • mountains trying to encircle the Anzacs > mountains, trying to encircle the Anzacs
  • withdrew joining the columns retreating south> withdrew, joining the columns retreating south
  • and although it was planned to evacuate. > although it had planned to be evacuated.
  • Later, the Germans moved to bring... Multiple comma splices here; this should be at least 3 different sentences

Bibliography

  • Bassett, James A. needs a bullet point

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Battle of 42nd Street/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: History6042 (talk · contribs) 15:56, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: ImaginesTigers (talk · contribs) 21:06, 30 July 2025 (UTC)


I'll take this on. Not a military history buff by any stretch, but that won't stop me. I've got another project going on right now, but you can expect the full review to arrive on Friday at the latest. — ImaginesTigers 21:06, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

@ImaginesTigers, by the way it is not necessary but I am looking at taking this to FA, so if its no problem could you please tell me if there would be any issues at FAC. History6042😊 (Contact me) 23:48, 31 July 2025 (UTC)
No problem; I can do an FA review for you. It'll be tomorrow morning (~18 hours from now). Apologies but my head's deep in Ancient Greece right now. — ImaginesTigers 17:10, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
That's alright, thanks, I am also working on an Ancient Greece article. History6042😊 (Contact me) 17:11, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
Seeing Greece involvement is what made me pick this one up! — ImaginesTigers 17:15, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
Oh, interesting! History6042😊 (Contact me) 17:17, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
@ImaginesTigers, all  Done, or responded inline. History6042😊 (Contact me) 15:45, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
I think usual custom is that biblio sources shouldn't include page ranges; the template documentation says to use the page or pages field for the page supporting the material, not the full article/chapter as most style guides request. That's beyond the scope of a GA review, though, but just flagging that it may come up at FAC. Don't foresee any problems with the nomination at FAC, but I have limited familiarity with the subject matter and can't judge comprehensiveness. Given nothing turned up at peer review, though, I'd say you're good to go. – ImaginesTigers 18:08, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Review

  • Everything appears verifiable; I'll do spot checks at the end. I've used my signature so you can reply using the reply tool instead of editing the source.
  • No copyright concerns.
  • Stable.
  • First GA review; nominator is primary author. Open peer review with all feedback actioned.
  • Image is appropriately tagged

Biblio

  • Move page number from Bassett 1948 from the biblio into the Sfn for consistency – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • Page numbers needed for Bell 1991 – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • References I think Peter Stanley could be moved into the ref? I say this for consistency – like the other sources with author names and a date? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • What makes IWM.org.uk a reliable source? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
    It is an official government museum of the UK. History6042😊 (Contact me) 14:40, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Prose

  • Background reads well
  • There's a back-to-back blue link on "garrisoned Crete". It makes it appear like it's taking me to an article on the garrisoning of Crete, so maybe remove garrison link and just link Crete here. – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • British forces also garrisoned Crete, enabling the Greek Fifth Cretan Division to reinforce the mainland campaign For comprehensiveness (per your FA request), is there detail on how this enabled them to do that? What were the Fifth Cretan Division doing if British forces weren't available? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • The German army high command (Oberkommando des Heeres) was preoccupied with the forthcoming Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union, and was largely opposed to an attack on Crete – This could be made more concise by, for example, rendering Oberkommando des Heeres as German army high command; same with "their forthcoming invasion of the Soviet Union. – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • Thoughts on renaming 'opposing forces' to 'forces'?– ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • particularly in the backwater of Crete Shots fired at the people of Crete! An alternate word for "backwater" perhaps?
  • Not sure footnote [a] is needed given the name of the article. I think the final clause ("but locally ...") could be included as a simple bracket after "42nd Street" instead. It's the only EFN in the article, too – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • In Battle – can we differentiate "Chania" as a city (compared to the region)? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • 'C' and 'D' Companies Is it normal to use quotations here? I'd have thought it would be fine just to say C and D companies (without capitalising 'companies'). I'm not a military guy though so you'll know convention better than me. – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • The retreating Germans who tried to hide Seems a bit tautological – what does the source say here? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
    "They were shot from the hip and those who hid in the scrub were bayoneted." History6042😊 (Contact me) 14:52, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • In Aftermath, That afternoon, German forces were seen by whom? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • 121 men from 1st Battalion 141st Gebirgsjager Regiment were found dead, bayoneted and clubbed to death by the Second Australian Imperial Force and the Maoris The phrasing here confuses me. I can't tell who found them versus who bayoneted and clubbed them to death – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • Could we split Aftermath up a bit? It's a very large paragraph and I'm a bit lost in the details. – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
  • Later, the Germans moved to bring war crime charges due to the ferocity of the fighting When is later? Who were the charges brought against (and by what means)? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
    • They then claimed that the Anzacs had killed men who were attempting to surrender, but this claim has since been refuted When did they claim it, when was it refuted, and who refuted it? – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Spot checks

Sadly my sourcing tool is down so I'm struggling to get access to anything here. Could you provide me with the sentences supporting the following claims:

  • Adolf Hitler was concerned about attacks on the Romanian oil fields from Crete
  • Source:
  • On 30 April 1941, Major-general Bernard Freyberg, who had been evacuated from mainland Greece with the 2nd New Zealand Division, was appointed commander-in-chief on Crete. He noted the acute lack of heavy weapons, equipment, supplies and communication facilities
  • Source:
  • This was because most troops were only lightly armed as the heavier equipment had been left in Greece during the evacuation
  • Source:
  • On 20 and 21 May the first landings began

Thank you for an interesting read. – ImaginesTigers 11:46, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

For the Romanian airfield, "Hitler was concerned that during his war with the Soviet Union the Allies would conduct air attacks on the Romanian oilfields from bases on Crete." History6042😊 (Contact me) 15:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
For the one about Freyberg, . History6042😊 (Contact me) 15:26, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
For the evacuation thing, I think I no longer have the source. History6042😊 (Contact me) 15:37, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
For the date of the start of the landings "Their airborne attack fell in three areas, from west to east around Malame, Canea, Retimo and Heraklion, beginning on 21 May." History6042😊 (Contact me) 15:44, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
JSTOR is working again for me – evacuation one passes. – ImaginesTigers 18:06, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.