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"Part of the Second Intifada militancy campaign"
The infobox states that the murders were "part of the Second Intifada militancy campaign". While it is true that the murder has occurred during the Second Intifada, since no perpetrators have been found and to this day it is not known who killed the boys and what their motives were, I think this sentence should be removed, as there is no evidence that the murders were part of a militancy campaign. Thoughts? BeŻet (talk) 12:03, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
- The label "militancy campaign" makes little sense to me actually, I think it can just be shortened to "part of the Second Intifada". I don't think that's really disputed, as the intifada was largely organized but there were lone wolf attacks as well. —Ynhockey (Talk) 08:45, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
- It can be disputed on the grounds that the perpetrator of the attacks were never found and motives are unknown. The murders happened to have taken place during the Second Intifada, but since we don't know who committed the crime and why, attributing them to the Second Intifada is incorrect in my opinion. BeŻet (talk) 12:53, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
- User:BeŻet, I completely agree. AFAIK, there is nil−nix−nada evidence that this was a terrorist attack: no perpetuators have ever been found. Huldra (talk) 20:19, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- The perpetrators not being caught does not negate this being a murder and an act of terror.
He and Yosef were both killed that day by Palestinian terrorists, their skulls shattered with massive rocks and their bodies stabbed, bludgeoned and then dragged into a cave in the Judean desert.
. TOI, 2014,Koby Mandell’s family after he and his friend Yosef Ishran were killed by terrorists in 2001
. The bodies were found - bludgeoned beyond recognition - are we going to dispute their deaths as well? Icewhiz (talk) 06:46, 14 January 2019 (UTC)- Nobody's disputing that they were brutally murdered, but a brutal murder is not automatically a terrorist attack. The motives are unknown, because the perpetrators are unknown. It's that simple. We're already including what Israeli officials think, but we can't unequivocally state anything until the murderers are identified. BeŻet (talk) 23:02, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- Your assertion above is WP:OR. We have RSes stating in their own voice this was a terror attack. Catching the perpetrators is not a necessary condition for an act to be an act of terror. The 9/11 terrorists were never caught nor convicted - and even if their identities would've remained unknown (and there is a certain degree of uncertainty regarding some of them) - it would still be a terrorist attack. Icewhiz (talk) 08:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- What a terrible comparison. We know the exact identities of the hijackers in the September 11 attacks, the exact motives, circumstances of the planning, setup and execution, and on top of that, a specific group claiming responsibility. We know nothing about this murder, other than the victims, time and place. Also, how on Earth saying that we cannot determine the perpetrators of this murder is WP:OR? The perpetrators are unknown, literally nothing is known about them - end of story - and because of that we cannot determine the motive. BeŻet (talk) 19:21, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- It is not our job to determine the motive - that is OR. We follow sources, which clearly state Palestinian terrorism.Icewhiz (talk) 19:42, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- But we already say what sources say: that the perpetrators were not found, and that Israel is claiming it was Palestinian terrorism. However we cannot state that it was, without a doubt, Palestinian terrorism. That's why we've removed this statement from the Infobox. We want to stick to the truth. BeŻet (talk) 22:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
- WP:NOTTRUTH. Icewhiz (talk) 08:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
- But we already say what sources say: that the perpetrators were not found, and that Israel is claiming it was Palestinian terrorism. However we cannot state that it was, without a doubt, Palestinian terrorism. That's why we've removed this statement from the Infobox. We want to stick to the truth. BeŻet (talk) 22:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
- It is not our job to determine the motive - that is OR. We follow sources, which clearly state Palestinian terrorism.Icewhiz (talk) 19:42, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- What a terrible comparison. We know the exact identities of the hijackers in the September 11 attacks, the exact motives, circumstances of the planning, setup and execution, and on top of that, a specific group claiming responsibility. We know nothing about this murder, other than the victims, time and place. Also, how on Earth saying that we cannot determine the perpetrators of this murder is WP:OR? The perpetrators are unknown, literally nothing is known about them - end of story - and because of that we cannot determine the motive. BeŻet (talk) 19:21, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- Your assertion above is WP:OR. We have RSes stating in their own voice this was a terror attack. Catching the perpetrators is not a necessary condition for an act to be an act of terror. The 9/11 terrorists were never caught nor convicted - and even if their identities would've remained unknown (and there is a certain degree of uncertainty regarding some of them) - it would still be a terrorist attack. Icewhiz (talk) 08:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- Nobody's disputing that they were brutally murdered, but a brutal murder is not automatically a terrorist attack. The motives are unknown, because the perpetrators are unknown. It's that simple. We're already including what Israeli officials think, but we can't unequivocally state anything until the murderers are identified. BeŻet (talk) 23:02, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- The perpetrators not being caught does not negate this being a murder and an act of terror.
- User:BeŻet, I completely agree. AFAIK, there is nil−nix−nada evidence that this was a terrorist attack: no perpetuators have ever been found. Huldra (talk) 20:19, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- It can be disputed on the grounds that the perpetrator of the attacks were never found and motives are unknown. The murders happened to have taken place during the Second Intifada, but since we don't know who committed the crime and why, attributing them to the Second Intifada is incorrect in my opinion. BeŻet (talk) 12:53, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
Edit request 4 May 2025
Description of suggested change:
Diff:
| − | ORIGINAL_TEXT | + | CHANGED_TEXT |
136.56.51.204 (talk) 21:47, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
This article uses the following language "were killed on the outskirts of the Israeli settlement of Tekoa in the Judea and Samaria," Judea and Samaria is the terminology used by the Israeli government to describe the territory that is considedered illegally occupied by international law. By choosing to use this language Wikipedia is siding with the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory and providing manufactored consent to the ongoing ethinic cleansing that has been occuring in this area since 1947.
I believe the framing of the location should be edited to show that these crimes occured in the West Bank which under international law is Palestinian territory.
Done An IP editor changed it to Judea and Samaria in February; I've reverted it back to the West Bank per WP:WESTBANK. Day Creature (talk) 00:47, 5 May 2025 (UTC)