Talk:Vivi Ornitier

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


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This review is transcluded from Talk:Vivi Ornitier/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 08:21, 13 September 2019 (UTC)


Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs)

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

  • It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -  Done
  • It contains copyright infringements -  Done
  • It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -  Done
  • It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -  Done

Prose

Lede

  • Vivi Ornitier (ビビ・オルニティア Bibi Orunitia) - could we have explaination as to what this means? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure what you mean? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I added a note about the name difference, if that was what you meant? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 01:01, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Usually when we have these things, we would say that the words are the japanese/Hepburn translation, otherwise it's just words. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:36, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Surprised there is nothing in the lede about his class in game (being a black mage). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I thought I read somewhere that FFIX was based on FF1, where characters were fully based on class types. I'm surprised no comparrison happens in the lede, as it's quite a short lede. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I see a thing about FF9 taking from old FF games in the FF9 article, but I'm not sure how effectively that could be implemented here. I fear it would risk running afoul of OR. Thoughts? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Rest of article

  • His character design took inspiration from the designs of characters - which characters? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I believe it's the general style that The Dark Crystal employs for its characters, clarifying. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 16:24, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Producer Shinji Hashimoto identified Vivi as the character from Final Fantasy IX who left the greatest impression on him, while event planner Nobuaki Komoto considered him (and the other Black Mage elements) to be his favorite aspects of the cast. - is this a creation thing though? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Removed. I just put it there because it didn't feel right for Reception. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:46, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Outside of the first two sentences of "Concept and creation", the rest doesn't really apply to creation, or the concept behind the character. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Should wikilink black mage, and explain what that is. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • He finds a Black Mage Village - either "He finds a Black Mage village", or "He finds the Black Mage Village", not in the middle. It's a proper noun, and village is a discriptive word. It's a little complex. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • He is implied to have died during his ending monologue - - I've seen conflicting works on this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Surprised his other cameos/appearances aren't more in depth here, quite close to failing the WP:BROAD criteria for this GA. Especially in KH2, he is quite a focal character at the start of the game from memory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Expanded those, still need to expand World of Final Fantasy and source the detail about KH2 having Disney and SE characters. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:19, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Do we need a Merchandise subsection? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • A figurine of Vivi was released by Play Arts - any more information on this? Sales volumes, or anything? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Since his appearance in Final Fantasy IX - Pointless - it couldn't have been before this! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Not necessarily! He has been discussed in sources (not present in this article) regarding his role pre-release. Since it doesn't apply here I can remove it, but that was my reason for including it, as other articles sometimes have pre-release reception. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:21, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Vivi has been met with positive reception - we should really say "generally positive reception", as if not, any cite that said "I don't like this" would be against this intro. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
    • For what it's worth, and I might be mistaken, there aren't any citations like that because Vivi is too pure and good. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:21, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Can we re-order the reception a bit. The first review just names him as "one of the best video game characters ever", but no additional commentary.
    • I feel that the Famitsu source works okay due to standing out from the rest as a reader poll. I combined it with the good reception sentence, if that helps. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 00:09, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
  • So, we need author names. The individual publications don't actually speak, so it should be X from Y newspaper said this, unless no author is given in the credits. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • role-playing game should be wikilinked (here and in lede) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Writer Gerren Fisher - where were they writing? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Notes & References


GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Comments

  • Automated note - If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definately not manditory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs)
    • I do feel there are a few things missing from this one. The Creation section needs a little expansion, and the lede is very small. See other GA Squall Leonhart for some tips on how this should probably be expanded. There's also a few things above for the prose. I'll place on hold. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:50, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
      • I think I've addressed most if not all issues. Let me know if anything was missed or if new issues arise please @Lee Vilenski:. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 01:24, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
        • I still would like more info for an expansion in the appearances, but I don't think it's something that should fail a GAN on, just would be nice to have a few more sentences regarding the appearances outside of FFIX, but I'll pass for now. Congrats. I think I have another one of your open, so I'll check that out probably tomorrow. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:41, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
          • Thank you. I'll try to get some more non-FF9 appearance info as I can, I just want to be careful not to have too much, you know? And AFAIK, outside of KH2 and WoFF there's not much substantial in terms of Vivi's appearances. I guess I could elaborate his crossover into Puzzle & Dragons was a part of an event. Also, yeah you have Fran open, I'm trying to preempt issues you may have with it that you had here so that your review will be a little easier. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:26, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
            • Ideal, hopefully I'll get to it later today. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:30, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How did the character's name change?

From the article: "Vivi Ornitier was created for the video game Final Fantasy IX. His name in English was originally Vivi Ornitier in the Final Fantasy IX manual, though this changed in the Greatest Hits re-release." It is not quite clear what the different naming variants are. This bit has been added to the article as such, and is not a result of copyediting later on. -- 2003:D0:DF02:FA00:993D:F10C:3265:77DD (talk) 12:40, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 29 January 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 15:42, 5 February 2026 (UTC)

– The fictional character is primary by pageviews, per WP:PTM, as the others with the name Vivi are not very popular on Wikipedia, are not referred to solely as Vivi, or don't have a page. There is not an entry with such longterm significance as to render the pageview argument moot. Though Vivi technically has a full name, he is by and large known as Vivi to gamers. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:45, 29 January 2026 (UTC)

Oppose The character's full name is used heavily on media related to the character and in secondary sourcing. Even before the Magic: The Gathering card release it was significantly used, indicating WP:COMMONNAME applies just fine here. Meanwhile Vivi is a vague enough term that it's used on enough to warrant the disambiguation.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:23, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
This doesn't really engage with the argument on whether it's primary. Vivi might be vague, but that's why we have a DAB page for it. The character is still the primary topic, and "Vivi" is still what the character is predominantly called, not their full name. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:40, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
I engaged your argument Zx and presented my reasoning. Again, there's enough variation in the use of Vivi by itself that the disambig serves better as the primary, and again there's enough usage of the character's full name by media outlets to justify COMMONNAME.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:25, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
If so, then please state directly what these other potential primary topics for Vivi are. It may even convince me to withdraw it if there is something big I have missed. I cannot see anything equally primary, and people who aren't known mononymously as Vivi don't count per WP:PTM. Even if Vivi's article isn't moved, it may still justify moving the DAB page and making Vivi a primary redirect if there aren't any competing articles. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:01, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
For the umpteenth time, yes, they do count. You're using a link to WP:PTM as a cudgel again :) --Joy (talk) 09:01, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
WP:NAMELIST directly deals with this as well, saying that names should not be added to DAB pages if they are not mononymously known by it. Someone typing in "John" is not going to expect to reach "John Hancock" (though someone typing "Hancock" probably would).
The problem with your argument is that if we assume that Vivi (name) is equally primary, solely because people searching for Vivi might want to find one of the people listed there with Vivi in the name even if they don't have a specific one in mind, then it basically becomes a search index, which PTM doesn't allow. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:25, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
No, it says they should be added, but if the list is too long, we move it to a separate list to avoid lengthening the main list with entries that are less common. Just less common, not ineligible. --Joy (talk) 10:04, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
In addition, this whole "readers don't expect to reach X when looking up X" argument is sometimes completely arbitrarily applied to these niche terms. How can we really say with any certainty they expect to reach e.g. Nefertari Vivi or ViVi (single album) when looking up Vivi, but they do not expect to reach Vivi Fernandez or Vivi Bach?
It's like we're at a fortune teller's. --Joy (talk) 10:10, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
Oppose per Kung Fu Man. — Cactoideae♫♪ (talk) 16:53, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not the common name, and not the primary topic either. 162 etc. (talk) 02:36, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.