Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Joe Johnson (snooker player)/archive2

Comments by Lee Vilenski

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede

• Snooker commentator - are we sure he's never commentated on anything else? TNT do pool events, maybe we should say "sports commentator" unless we know he's ONLY snooker. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:09, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

I did a search and did not find any evidence of him commentting on anything other than snooker. The phrase "a snooker commentator for Eurosport." does nit rule out him commenting on other sports or for other channels. I think "sports commentator" is less accurate. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• With first-round losses in his two previous Crucible appearances - this doesn't mean anything unless you know that the world championships are at the crucible. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:09, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Indeed. Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• He dropped out of the world's "top 16" - this isn't really a quote. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:09, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• The lede mentions him dropping out of the top 16, but nothing else on the world rankings. Somewhere should say his high ranking of 5. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:09, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

Prose

• It's odd to mention the rounds of the Canadian Open, cause it starts at round 5. Our article doesn't even mention that round, so maybe just say he won those matches to reach round 7. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Amended. (The source talks about "exemptions" rather than "seeding".) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• At the 1983 World Championship, he recorded a 10–0 whitewash against Paul Watchorn in the first round of qualifying but then lost 8–9 to Wilson, missing his chance to reach the main stage of the event - why was a later round less frames than the earlier one? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Typo, corrected. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• or the 1983–84 season, Johnson's points from the previous season placed him 23rd in the world ranking - link the world rankings Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:04, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• where he whitewashed Wilson 5–0 (winning each frame by a narrow margin) - is this relevant? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

I've taken "(winning each frame by a narrow margin)" out. The source has "each of the five frames was close and the result could easily have been reversed" but including that commentary as well seems a bit undue. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:15, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

• Werbeniuk made a 143 break in the tenth frame—the third-highest break ever recorded at the championship at that time—and won the match 10–8 - cause it's got the score first, it does make it seem like Joe won this match. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Amended to "and defeated Johnson 10–8". Should be a bit clearer. Rodney Baggins .talk. 11:38, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

• I'm not the biggest fan of the "X eliminated Y" terminology when it's a knockout. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

I'll hopefully be able to defer to Rodney Baggins on this point. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:23, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

Yep, I'm surprised I didn't notice that in my final copyedit. Will sort it pronto. Rodney Baggins .talk. 10:14, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

• Perhaps we should add a bit more to the image caption to really sell that Davis was a big deal. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Davis was three-time world champion at the time, so I've added that to the caption. I know he ended up a six-time champion, but I hope the average reader would understand that we're referring to his status in 1986. Rodney Baggins .talk. 11:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

• Defying expectations, however, - his own expectations, not necessarily others. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

"Defying his own expectations" might be OK if that is indeed the tone given in the source (Benny?) or just change it to "However,..." Rodney Baggins .talk. 11:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

The Burn source mentions that having been a 150-1 outsider in 1986, and given his performances up to the 1987 tournament, "the odds agains him were stacked almost as high [as in 1986]. He surprised everyone, however [by reaching the semi-finals]". Burn then covers the defeat of Foulds and the losss to Davis. Williams and Gadsby wrote that by the time of the 1987 championship Johnson was a "no-hoper again" (p.140). Terry Smith of The Daily Telegraph said Johnson "exceeded all expectations". So I think sources support that it was not just his own expectation. There might be a better phrasing, though. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:48, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

• making a 147 maximum break - for the uninitiated, I prefer "maximum break of 147". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:36, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Agree. Reworded. Rodney Baggins .talk. 11:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

• Johnson is a regular commentator for Eurosport.[75] During the UK Championship in December 2013, John Higgins said of him: "I heard before the tournament Joe Johnson was slating me. If that guy isn't the worst commentator in the world, he's in the top three."[113] - this seems a bit undue. 7 words on him being a commentator for over a decade seems a bit short too. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:36, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

Will defer to Benny on this one! Rodney Baggins .talk. 11:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

I couldn't find any non-trivial mentions except around the Higgins comments. I've added a bit to give some more context. Perhaps this can be condensed a bit? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:48, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

Additional comments

• Full disclosure - I have nine edits to this article. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:53, 19 January 2026 (UTC)

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list.

Hi Lee Vilenski, thanks for your interest. Just a gentle nudge... Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:59, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

• Hi Lee, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:45, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

  I'm happy to support Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:13, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

HF

I will review this soon. I know very little about snooker so this should be considered a non-expert review. Hog Farm _Talk 18:19, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Thank you. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:18, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• "Johnson started off as a 150‍–‍1 outsider at the 1986 World Championship." - I think there needs to be some sort of gloss as to what this means. Is this gambling odds?

I added a wikilink to odds. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:18, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• " As an amateur, he became the British under-19 champion in 1971, defeating Tony Knowles in the final." - the article body does not state that he defeated Knowles in the 1971 competition (and the article at British Junior Snooker Championship claimed he defeated one George Crimes, sourced to an offline 1970s newspaper article)

Corrected the lead, added this into the body. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:18, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• "which was the most significant win of Johnson's professional career up to that point" - should this be attributed?

As this derives from a newspaper article, I've removed it. This win isn't mentioned in Morrison (1987), Morrison (1988) or Williams & Gadsby, Paul (2005). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:18, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• Link walkover?

Linked. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:18, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• "which was Johnson's first televised match as a professional," - this is stated in a section which is referring to 1983, but earlier in the article is "Johnson achieved little success in his early professional career and gained a reputation for not performing well in televised matches." which I would assume to be referring to things before 1983 given that amount of discussion and career events between these two statements. Especially since he seems to have had world ranking points by 1983 which I wouldn't think would go with "achieved little success"?

Johnson had actually only lost three televised matches before his defeat of Wilson in 1985, so I've made a couple of amendments. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:03, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Ready for the 1986 World Champion section; I hope to have time to continue the review tomorrow. Hog Farm _Talk 03:00, 10 February 2026 (UTC)

• Has the reliability of Chris Turner's Snooker Archive been discussed at FAC before?

There have been four discussions at RSN, most recently 2022, which has links off to four of the discussions at FAC. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:10, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

• " "Johnson's world bid Comes to painful end"" - is there a reason for the odd inconsistency in capitalization within this source title?

No reason. Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:10, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

Mostly through the article; I still need to cross-reference the timelines against the main article body text to check for inconsistencies. Hog Farm _Talk 00:50, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

A quick check through the timelines did not reveal anything that looked like an obvious discrepancy to me. Hog Farm _Talk 00:05, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

• "Johnson continued playing on the professional tour until 2005, when he retired at age 53 after breaking his ankle. He later competed on the World Seniors Tour and won the 2019 Seniors Masters." - the World Seniors Tour does not appear to be mentioned by name in the article body; I think it would be helpful to mention which of the seniors events he played in were part of this tour (especially since the phrasing in the lead indicates that this participation post-dates 2005, so it would not be all of his seniors participation)

Rather than include that in the body, I've amended the lead, because three of the events mentioned in the section pre-date the formation of the World Seniors Tour in 2017. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:43, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

I anticipate supporting. Hog Farm _Talk 03:16, 18 February 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, Hog Farm. Please let me know if there is anything else. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:43, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

Supporting Hog Farm _Talk 16:44, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

Coordinator note

This has been open for more than three weeks and has yet to pick up a support. Unless it attracts considerable movement towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:41, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Comments by HurricaneHiggins

Hi all, I find this article well-written, substantive, engaging, and well cited. It's worthy of Featured Article status overall. Below are some local issues I noted:

• Lead: "Joe Johnson (born 29 July 1952)". In the "Early life and amateur career" section, we clarify that he was not born "Johnson." His father was Malik Farooq, and his mother married Ken Johnson when he was a young child. Should we clarify that he had a different birth name?

• Interesting point. Let me see if I can find anything in sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:40, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

• The Daily Record states he was born Joseph Malik. Would it be appropriate, then, to have the lead say "Joseph Johnson (né Malik, born 29 July 1952)"? HurricaneHiggins (talk) 13:29, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

• Great find, thank you. Amended the articleb ut I used "born instead of né). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:46, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

• The lead also calls him "a snooker commentator for Eurosport." Eurosport is now TNT Sports in the UK and Ireland. Should this be noted here? This issue also arises in the "Non-playing activities" section when we say: "Johnson is a regular commentator for Eurosport."

• Pending. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:25, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

• In the Early life and amateur career section, he is referred to as both "Joe" and "Johnson". If possible, clarify his birth name and when that was changed to Johnson. Refer to him as "Johnson" afterwards, rather than "Joe."

• Amended. BennyOnTheLoose BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:46, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

• Also in this section "He reached the final, where he was defeated 11‍–‍5 by Cliff Wilson." Reformat the score as 5–11 here.

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:25, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

• Globally, we have several instances where a player is referred to by their full unlinked name, despite having been referenced by their full wiki-linked name earlier. At other points, players are referred to by last name only, which creates inconsistency. I noticed this issue with Mike Hallett, Graham Miles, Cliff Wilson, Tony Meo, Terry Griffiths, Tony Knowles, Dennis Taylor, Steve Davis, Jimmy White, Neal Foulds, Warren King, Willie Thorne, and Stephen Hendry. Typically, we only use the full wiki-linked name on the first use in a major section. The only reason for using the full unlinked name subsequently is when two players referenced in the article have the same last name, e.g., on the current tour, Neil Robertson and Jimmy Robertson or Mark Williams and Robbie Williams.

• Paging Rodney Baggins: I'm happy to go through and make the amendments, but just wanted to check in with you first in case there are deliberate choices here. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:46, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Yes, these were deliberate choices. It depends what you mean by a 'major section'. I would consider each subsection (with level 3 heading) to be pretty important in its own right. Joe Johnson is particularly known for his 1986 win, so the casual reader might want to just dip in and read about that, by jumping straight down to the 1986 World Champion subsection, and wouldn't want to be presented with surnames that meant nothing, e.g. "In the second round, he took a 5‍–‍3 lead against Hallett after the first session" --- so who's this Hallett person? Having not read the earlier part of the article, s/he might not have come across this player before. So I tend to think that all player names should be given in full at first mention in each new (level 3) subsection, then surname only if mentioned again in same subsection. Or, at least, that's the logic I've used here. Rodney Baggins .talk. 17:59, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

• I find the syntax odd in this sentence: "He was defeated by Taylor again at the 1984 International Open; after beating Mario Morra 5‍–‍0 and Charlton 5‍–‍1, he was defeated by Taylor 2‍–‍5 in the last 16." Why not: "At the 1984 International Open; after beating Mario Morra 5‍–‍0 and Charlton 5‍–‍1, he was defeated again by Taylor, losing 2‍–‍5 in the last 16."

• Amended, but with a comma rather than semi-colon after "Open" BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:25, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

• Apologies, the semi-colon was my error. Comma is correct here. Thank you. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 13:29, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

• "On the second day of the final, Johnson wore an unusual pair of red, pink and white leather shoes." The infobox notes that his nickname is "The Shoe." Does this derive from his shoes in the 1986 final? If so, it would be nice to note that here. The reference to "The Shoe" in the infobox is dead.

• Added into the body. Do you think I should use that ref on the page where the nickname references are too? (The archive for the Infobox ref is available). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:46, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

• Yes, I think that would be good to do!

HurricaneHiggins (talk) 14:07, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

• "at the half-way point" -- I don't think we need to hyphenate halfway.
• "and a "personal appearance" accompanying pop star Cliff Richard" -- I don't think we need the quotation marks around "personal appearance"
• "Writing in 2008, the Historian Alwyn W. Turner" -- lowercase the word historian here.
• "the other being the 1997 champion Ken Doherty who was runner-up in 1998" -- put a comma after "Doherty"
• "the 1991 Nescafe Extra Challenge" -- add accent on Nescafé.
• "he lost 9‍–‍10 to Mick Price on the pink ball in their deciding frame" -- unlink "pink ball" here and link it under "but missed the pink on 134" above

• Amended per the six points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:25, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

Otherwise, great job on this.HurricaneHiggins (talk) 18:52, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

Hi HurricaneHiggins, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:01, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, @Gog the Mild. I'm happy to support the nomination given the changes above. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 23:22, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Comment by Howardcorn33

Why does the article call him "Joe Johnson" in the lead? Was "Joe" his legal first name? ―Howard • 🌽³³ 10:56, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Hi Howardcorn33 I found "Joseph Johnson" in Smith (1988) so have amended that. Thanks. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:54, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Great! ―Howard • 🌽³³ 15:57, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: furthermore the birth surname in the lead should be denoted with {{ne}} per MOS:NE. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 11:28, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Howardcorn33, {{ne}} is given as an option for name changes due to marriage. MOS:NE has "If a subject changed their surname (last name) for whatever reason (e.g., marriage, adoption, personal preference), then their surname at birth should generally also be given in the lead. Editors may denote this with "born" followed by the subject's surname or full name"; and as an example gives "Barbara Flynn (born Barbara Joy McMurray, 5 August 1948) is an English actress". Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:10, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

alr then ―Howard • 🌽³³ 17:17, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Image and source review

Images are well placed, licenced, but only two have ALT text. What makes https://seniorsnooker.com/ and http://www.worldsnooker.com/ a reliable source? I must admit that for most of these books, I wouldn't know them from a hole in the ground - would appreciate some information on what makes them reliable. Is 978-0-9931433-1-1 a correct ISBN? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:55, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose, over and above being reliable, what makes them high quality sources? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:00, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus and Gog the Mild. I wasn't quite sure how to reply about sources, but I've had a go below. Happy to expand on this if required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:08, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

• Peter Arnold (1987). Arnold was a freelance sports writer. Hamlyn is a respectable publisher.
• Gordon Burn (2008) Burn was a writer of fiction and non-fiction. Faber & Faber is a respectable publisher. Burns's book was described as "palpably a classic" by Frank Keating in The Guardian
• Clive Everton (1981), (1985), (1986), (2012). Founded Snooker Scene magazine, regarded as the journal of record for snooker, and edited it for around 50 years. He wrote for many national newspapers about snooker, and was a long-time commentator on the sport for BBC television.
• Hayton, Eric N.; Dee, John (2004). CueSport magazine was a nationally-distributed magazine in the UK from 2000 to 2009 and this was a spinoff. John Dee wrote about snooker for the Daily Telegraph and edited Cue World, another UK snooker magazine. The CueSport book, over a thousand pages long, mainly lists results of professional snooker tournaments, with some retrospective articles by Dee. It was intended to be the first of a (presumably annual) series, but was not followed up.
• Dave Hendon (2025). Hendon is a longtime snooker journalist who has written for The Guardian. He was previously deputy editor of Snooker Scene magazine. (Incidentally, in the book’s introduction he says it is "not a Wikipedia-style recitation of who won what and when".)
• Jack Karnehm (1982). Karnehm was chair of the Billiards Association and Control Council, and became a professional player. From 1978 to 1993 he was a snooker commentator for the BBC. Pelham was an imprint of Michael Joseph, a reputable publisher.
• Kobylecky, John (2019). The ISBN 978-0-9931433-1- is how it appears on the title page of the book. In the September 2021 issue of Snooker Scene, Everton (see above) called Kobylecky "snooker's most tireless researcher". The book is essentially self-published so I can find different sources if necessary.
• Ian Morrison (1987), (1988), (1989). Morrison is a freelance author who has had many books published by reputable publishers such as Hamlyn. He was also a columnist for Pot Black magazine, which had a nationwide circulation in the UK.
• Hector Nunns (2017). Nunns is a journalist who has worked for newspapers including the DailyTelegraph and The Times covering snooker. Pitch Publishing is sports-focused, and many of its books have won or been nominated for awards. (Click “about us” at https://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/info to see their own list)
• Davis, Steve (2016); O'Sullivan, Ronnie (2023); Reardon, Ray; Hennessey, John (1986); Taylor, Dennis (1986). Davis. O’Sulivan, Reardon and Taylor are all former world snooker champions, and the respective publishers are reputable.
• Smith, Terry, ed. (1987), (1988). Smith was a snooker journalist who wrote for the Daily Telegraph. As mentioned above, Pelham had been an imprint of Michael Joseph; it was acquired by Penguin Books in 1985
• Tomlinson, Alan (2005). Tomlinson was an academic at Brighton Polytechnic (now the University of Brighton). Routledge is a respected publisher of professional and academic books.
• Turner, Alwyn W. (2013). Based on the cover blurbs, Turner’s book received positive reviews in the Financial Times, New Statesman, Daily Telegraph, BBC History Magazine and the Sunday Times.
• Williams, Luke; Gadsby, Paul (2005). Masters of the Baize was positively reviewed: Book of the Week in The Independent (4 April 2005); called "commendably thorough" in the Daily Telegraph (26 Apr 2005); described as "diligently researched… accurately detailing [careers]" in Snooker Scene (April 2005).
• I'll replace the use of https://seniorsnooker.com/ It self describes as "This blog is about the Seniors Snooker Tour, created and promoted by Jason Francis, the creator and promotor of the Snooker Legends. It is not an official Seniors Tour site, it’s a fan blog."
• http://www.worldsnooker.com/ was the official website of World Snooker, which administers the World Snooker Tour. This, and the newer World snooker Tour (wst.tv) references are, I believe, only used for uncontroversial information here.

Commendably thorough, thanks. I was mostly concerned by the two web sites Jo-Jo flagged up. And a little twitchy about Kobylecky. My HQ qualms are now laid to rest. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:33, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

OK I guess. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:42, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. FrB.TG (talk) 10:16, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.