Outside linebackers
I'm aware there was consensus to omit listing this as a position in the lead/infobox due to the position seeming interchangeable. I disagree, outside linebackers are almost always edge rushers (4-3 defensive end, 3-4 outside linebacker) in today's terminology; the tradition ones that cover the run and pass are called off-ball/Will/Sam linebackers. I actually changed David Bailey's position to edge rusher a few weeks ago since it wasn't clear at the time what the Jets were going to officially list him as, and it seems like nobody has decided to change it.
What I'm proposing is that we allow outside linebacker to be listed (it exists as a category and nobody has an issue with that) and potentially allowing edge rusher as a alternative for these sort of pass rushing/edge defending players with often misleading positional labels. — Dissident93 (talk) 20:19, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
- My concern is verifiability
, as it doesn't seem to be the listed position at Pro Football Reference, which is the typical link in the infobox.—Bagumba (talk) 04:28, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- I wish the term 'edge rusher' never existed. When players get older, they will not rush the edge as often, and will lose that wonderful distinction. They will be outside linebackers once again. Then it will be back to the 'linebacker' only - per template: inside or out. Let's hope PFR or the NFL doesn't make up a slick third type of safety. P.S. I can no longer view PFR on my computer, but I think PFR has Nick Bosa listed as 'EDGE'. Bringingthewood (talk) 04:55, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Scratch my PFR comment.—Bagumba (talk) 05:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- LOL Bringingthewood (talk) 05:10, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- My small sample size was that all of the 2025 All-Pro 1st team picks at edge rusher were not listed as EDGE on PFR. —Bagumba (talk) 14:32, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Scratch my PFR comment.—Bagumba (talk) 05:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- I wish the term 'edge rusher' never existed. When players get older, they will not rush the edge as often, and will lose that wonderful distinction. They will be outside linebackers once again. Then it will be back to the 'linebacker' only - per template: inside or out. Let's hope PFR or the NFL doesn't make up a slick third type of safety. P.S. I can no longer view PFR on my computer, but I think PFR has Nick Bosa listed as 'EDGE'. Bringingthewood (talk) 04:55, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- I've always been under the impression that the term edge rusher is typically used for players who spend roughly equal amounts of time at OLB and DE, or who play in such a way that there's not an obvious distinction. (disclaimer: this is my WP:OR so shouldn't count directly towards article content decisions) Left guide (talk) 05:00, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- It's really a distinction for a player with excellent skills at rushing the passer. Like D93 showed above, a 4-3 defense uses two DE's while a 3-4 has two OLB's. Example: Garrett is excellent, so he's noted as an edge rusher, but in reality he's a DE who is an excellent pass rusher. Like I said, that term was used in the past, but now it's even given as an All-Pro selection. We really needed this! Bringingthewood (talk) 05:10, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- I think this all came about so people will know when it's draft time, if he's listed as 'Edge', that means 'THIS PLAYER HERE' .. is very good at getting to the quarterback. Because the slob on the other side, well, his job is rushing the quarterback also .. but not good. Bringingthewood (talk) 05:17, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Btw, Lawrence Taylor was an excellent outside linebacker, which we all know, who .. was pretty good at terrorizing qb's. Too bad he missed out on that fancy distinction. It's not my problem if some players never learned how to drop back in coverage and intercept a pass. Garrett isn't excellent at that. Bringingthewood (talk) 05:22, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Sorry about going on and on, but I knew when that stupid distinction was created on paper, it would make a mess somewhere. I'm not at all disagreeing with D93. I just fear the infoboxes, with the multitudes of players out there, they will not be updated going forward. Garrett was listed as a DE for almost ten seasons here at WP, now the NFL places a tag on the position. What will he be at 36? When you slow down, then you go back to the position God gave you. Then that has to be changed in the infobox, when the younger edge comes along. I guess it will look like (Edge, linebacker)? For example, Rod Woodson, when a good corner ages, he can become a free safety etc. I'll let someone else speak now. Bringingthewood (talk) 05:52, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Dang, you know a lot about defense. No wonder your username is "Bringing the wood" lol. So Kevin Greene is listed as a "linebacker, defensive end". He has 160 sacks. He was probably sort of an edge rusher back then too, right? He just didn't have the fancy title? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- "Hall-of-Fame edge rusher, former 49er Kevin Greene dies at 58" ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:24, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Lol, I do like the pass rushers. Exactly, Greene was an edge rusher, but we didn't need another award title given out back then. Bringingthewood (talk) 20:46, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- I also believe this new title came to paper due to the hall of fame always saying, yeah, he was good, but he just got sacks. He wasn't all-around great .. forced fumbles, recoveries, qb hits, interceptions, etc. Now you can give a pretty much 'one dimensional' player an All-Pro award for a couple of positions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_All-Pro_Team But make no mistake, I'm not pointing fingers, I absolutely love it when a quarterback gets leveled .. no matter who does it. ;) - Bringingthewood (talk) 20:56, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- @Bringingthewood: Even when the Steelers QB gets leveled? ;) Left guide (talk) 20:59, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- @Left guide: Lol, as long as they don't get hurt. Joey Bosa did have a nice one on Rodgers last year. The first player I watched that did it well was Mark Gastineau, I was hooked since then. On the soul of my father, when the Jets played the Steelers, I wanted a Steelers win and Gastineau to get three sacks! Bringingthewood (talk) 21:07, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- @Bringingthewood: Even when the Steelers QB gets leveled? ;) Left guide (talk) 20:59, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- "Hall-of-Fame edge rusher, former 49er Kevin Greene dies at 58" ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:24, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's not uncommon for aging corners to become safeties as their speed declines. Left guide (talk) 16:45, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Charles Woodson also (no relation to Rod). ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:04, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Dang, you know a lot about defense. No wonder your username is "Bringing the wood" lol. So Kevin Greene is listed as a "linebacker, defensive end". He has 160 sacks. He was probably sort of an edge rusher back then too, right? He just didn't have the fancy title? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Heck if I know, I just wish people would stop listing offensive tackles as just "Tackle". Tackles, to me, are old two-way players (Category:American football tackles). When people go to Cal Hubbard they think he's a modern offensive lineman... ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:02, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- But dont most sources just refer to modern-day offensive lineman as just plain guards and tackles? —Bagumba (talk) 14:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- You're right, a lot of sources do that but I don't like it. It's confusing. User:Yankees10 doesn't like it either. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:06, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- In 2014, the tackle article made sense. In 2016, User:MisterCake took it upon himself to change it to an offensive based article and split the defensive tackle section into its own article. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- In PFRA's write-up for Ed White, they list him as " Guard, Tackle". They do use "offensive guard" in prose, but it's presumably only to distinguish from earlier mention of him playing "defensive middle guard".. So roster listings tend to not add "offensive", but I'm not sure about general usage in prose. —Bagumba (talk) 17:23, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- How do you distinguish people from the 40s or 50s where the cut-off into the new two-platoon era is blurry? You could be looking at two different articles from back then and one might list "Tackle" as meaning two-way tackle, and another might list "Tackle" as meaning offensive tackle... The current tackle article might be recency bias. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:36, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- Is there a WP convention for distinguishing halfbacks who were two-way players? —Bagumba (talk) 21:11, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- No, it was just called halfback back then. The halfback playing defense still exists in Canadian football: Halfback (Canadian football). That article has a lot of good details about the history of the naming. There's only one sentence in the body of Halfback (American football) that says "Historically, from the 1870s through the 1950s, the halfback position was both an offensive and defensive position." The reader most likely isn't going to get that far though. That's why most readers assume old-time halfbacks are just running backs like they are today. Until I changed it recently, Red Grange's article had him presented as a modern NFL halfback who only played offense. The lead said "Grange suffered a serious knee injury in 1927 that prevented him from playing the following season, but he returned to the Bears in 1929. He began contributing as an effective defensive back in addition to running the football". That's just completely made up from some modern editor because Grange was a defensive back his whole career. He already had two pick-sixes by that point in time. His infobox stats were also set up like a modern NFL halfback (rushing and receiving) until I changed it to add his passing touchdowns and defensive touchdowns. Halfbacks threw the ball as much or more than the "quarterback" back then. Revisionist history on these old-time players has always been bad. Sid Luckman's article didn't even say anything about him playing defense until I added it recently. He had at least 18 INTs on defense.
Facepalm lol ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:20, 5 June 2026 (UTC)
- So one option would be to add "two-way" somewhere in prose, but some prefer to stick with anachronistic/historic names e.g. plain "halfback", "tackle", "end", etc. I see this with team names, where some sources might use "San Diego Chargers (now Los Angeles)", but those seem to eventually get removed in WP to just "San Diego Chargers". —Bagumba (talk) 05:14, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
- Every once in a while, IPs like to go around changing Washington Redskins to Washington Commanders. Very annoying, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:45, 8 June 2026 (UTC)
- Another issue for the likes of Red Grange is he was a return specialist when there was no such specialist. Cake (talk) 16:31, 21 June 2026 (UTC)
- Every once in a while, IPs like to go around changing Washington Redskins to Washington Commanders. Very annoying, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:45, 8 June 2026 (UTC)
- So one option would be to add "two-way" somewhere in prose, but some prefer to stick with anachronistic/historic names e.g. plain "halfback", "tackle", "end", etc. I see this with team names, where some sources might use "San Diego Chargers (now Los Angeles)", but those seem to eventually get removed in WP to just "San Diego Chargers". —Bagumba (talk) 05:14, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
- No, it was just called halfback back then. The halfback playing defense still exists in Canadian football: Halfback (Canadian football). That article has a lot of good details about the history of the naming. There's only one sentence in the body of Halfback (American football) that says "Historically, from the 1870s through the 1950s, the halfback position was both an offensive and defensive position." The reader most likely isn't going to get that far though. That's why most readers assume old-time halfbacks are just running backs like they are today. Until I changed it recently, Red Grange's article had him presented as a modern NFL halfback who only played offense. The lead said "Grange suffered a serious knee injury in 1927 that prevented him from playing the following season, but he returned to the Bears in 1929. He began contributing as an effective defensive back in addition to running the football". That's just completely made up from some modern editor because Grange was a defensive back his whole career. He already had two pick-sixes by that point in time. His infobox stats were also set up like a modern NFL halfback (rushing and receiving) until I changed it to add his passing touchdowns and defensive touchdowns. Halfbacks threw the ball as much or more than the "quarterback" back then. Revisionist history on these old-time players has always been bad. Sid Luckman's article didn't even say anything about him playing defense until I added it recently. He had at least 18 INTs on defense.
- Is there a WP convention for distinguishing halfbacks who were two-way players? —Bagumba (talk) 21:11, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- How do you distinguish people from the 40s or 50s where the cut-off into the new two-platoon era is blurry? You could be looking at two different articles from back then and one might list "Tackle" as meaning two-way tackle, and another might list "Tackle" as meaning offensive tackle... The current tackle article might be recency bias. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:36, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- You're right, a lot of sources do that but I don't like it. It's confusing. User:Yankees10 doesn't like it either. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:06, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
- I've done that only because articles seem to list them that way. I also omit offensive from guards (Sam Cosmi) since there is no modern defensive guard position. Going with offensive tackle/guard would skip the need to disambiguate it and speed up linking if that matters. I personally don't care either way. — Dissident93 (talk) 00:23, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
- Nose guard. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:40, 8 June 2026 (UTC)
- Also, you're not wrong for doing it like that. (you may very well be right, according to the sources). It's just a pet peeve of mine.... lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:47, 8 June 2026 (UTC)
- It seems to me since we live in the era of two platoons, we should have a separate article for offensive and defensive tackle, just as we do for running back and defensive back, or center and linebacker. But I also agree there should be a history section in those articles saying these used to be combined. Cake (talk) 15:16, 18 June 2026 (UTC)
- But dont most sources just refer to modern-day offensive lineman as just plain guards and tackles? —Bagumba (talk) 14:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
Category:Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame has been nominated for deletion
Category:Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:42, 5 June 2026 (UTC)
Inclusion of college statistics
There is a discussion on the Jordan Love talk page regarding this topic; linking here as it is relevant to this project. I would appreciate if other NFL editors participated in this discussion so we can achieve consensus. Joeykai (talk) 02:45, 18 June 2026 (UTC)
- @Joeykai: Might want to post on WT:CFB about this if you want to discuss college. Despite the overlap, there are a lot of college only editors.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:23, 18 June 2026 (UTC)
Syracuse Pros?
Coming here from User talk:BeanieFan11 § Syracuse Pros? - I came across Syracuse Pros, which seems like it would benefit from a good bit of TLC, feels like it's got some OR problems going on. I'm not sure where to start really, though, if anyone wants to take a stab. Eddie891 Talk Work 19:49, 24 June 2026 (UTC)
- @Eddie891: Consider tagging the most egregious cases with {{original research inline}} or {{original research span}}, which can make it easier for others to know what's most important to dissect. Left guide (talk) 20:38, 24 June 2026 (UTC)
Tight End University
Someone really needs to get going on this article... hahaha. Truly though, I was surprised it was a red link at this point considering Swift has attended the last 2 seasons and all the coverage it gets in the news these days. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC)