Talk:Auldbrass Plantation

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Wiki Education assignment: Architectural History

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 17 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kalanalex (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Mpalomo1.

— Assignment last updated by Mpalomo1 (talk) 22:35, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by NightWolf1223 talk 00:26, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

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Old Brass plantation house
Old Brass plantation house
5x expanded by Epicgenius (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 718 past nominations.

Epicgenius (talk) 15:13, 24 April 2025 (UTC).

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: Yes
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Epicgenius: Everything looks to be in order. I would suggest that ALT1 be used as ALT0 sounds a bit generic (all artists have said something like that at some point). I see no major problems with the article. Jon698 (talk) 23:07, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

GA review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Auldbrass Plantation/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 01:38, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Reviewer: Usernameunique (talk · contribs) 20:38, 23 June 2026 (UTC)


Site
  • Is the fence part of the property?
    • Yes. - EG
  • Are the other plantations worth red links?
    • In my opinion, not really. There are a lot of plantations in this part of the US, not all of which are notable. - EG
  • What do you mean, specifically, by The site? Do you mean the amount of land on which the plantation originally sat?
    • Yes; this was the 4,253-acre expanse from which the current plantation is carved out. - EG
  • Red link for Charles Leigh Stevens?
    • Done. - EG
  • Thomas Church could use a brief introduction (landscape architect).
    • Done. - EG
  • Wright's original plan had been to construct a drainage canal and artificial lake on the property, but after the original lake dried up, it was not rebuilt until the 1990s. — The first clause makes it seem as if Wright did not construct the lake, but the second clause makes it seem as if he did.
    • It was indeed built, albeit after Wright's original house was completed. I clarified this. - EG
Previous usage
  • Who were Charles Barker and John Deas? Red links? Same questions for all the names in this section.
    • All of them were plantation owners (none of them had occupations that are noteworthy enough to be relevant for the topic of this article). Unfortunately, I do not think any of them are notable, but if I were to clarify that all of these are "landowners", it would be rather repetitive. - EG
  • What do you mean by main building? The largest house on those 16 land grants? Or the main building of the later-built plantation?
    • Correct. - EG
  • When did Steven’s acquire the Savannah River Lumber Company? Worth a red link?
    • Done. - EG
  • When was the land broken up, so that it no longer comprised the full 4,253 acres?
    • This is explained in the History section. The 4,253 acre area was the original area of the plantation. - EG
Planning
  • The plantation largely adhered to these plans — Do you mean as it was ultimately built?
    • Yes, fixed. - EG
First phase of construction
  • The dollar amounts aren't particularly helpful without inflation templates.
    • I will do this later. - EG
      • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:29, 24 June 2026 (UTC)
      • Looks good, but the ones in footnote a should also be rounded. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:47, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
  • Are boards really "built"? Is there a better word?
  • Is McDevitt & Street the name of the company at that point?
    • Yes. I clarified this. - EG
Completion and usage
  • "All hope lost." — Anything more that can be said here?
    • The source says "Complicating matters further, Stevens's third wife, Nina, redecorated the interiors in her own personal style and even made structural alterations to the main house that caused Wright to send a cable to Stevens that read simply: All hope lost." Wright was famously very finicky about his work, but unfortunately this source does not say this. - EG
  • a pool outside the plantation house's master bedroom — Does this mean there are two pools?
    • The source didn't say, so it would probably be WP:SYNTH to say that there were. However, the master bedroom pool was more of a decorative water feature. - EG
Loring ownership
  • The Lorings began renovating the building in 1971 — The main house?
    • Yes, fixed. - EG
  • By 1975, the South Carolina Department of Parks, Recreation and Tourism had expressed interest in buying Auldbrass from the Loring family, even though it had no money on hand. Instead, it asked the American Institute of Architects' South Carolina chapter and Clemson University's architecture school to examine the plantation, to determine whether the architectural community was interested in the plantation. — Sounds like nothing came of this? Is there a source that says so?
    • Indeed. Unfortunately, this is not reflected in the source. - EG
Subsequent sales
  • Sources disagree on whether 29 or 50 pieces were auctioned off. — Can you find a copy of the catalogue? That might also be interesting in terms of details, hammer prices, etc. There are enough libraries with copies listed on WorldCat (OCLC 171452222; there are also other listings with a single library each, e.g., OCLC 234235102, 171728009, 355626798, 1030505881) that I expect you would be able to ILL a copy.
    • Further discussion below. - EG
  • Does the Met's online catalogue list any of the pieces?
  • Any photos of the furniture/plans?
    • None on Commons, unfortunately. - EG
  • Any word on why companies (not people) were buying the plantation?
    • In American real estate it's commonplace for companies to buy properties, particularly those by noted architects. This could be one of these situations. - EG
  • Westvaco ultimately sold the plantation house ... to a man from Yemassee in 1981; the buyer was later noted as William Mixon — Any reason this isn't just Westvaco ultimately sold the plantation house ... to William Mixon, a local man, in 1981?
    • I've shortened it. - EG
Silver ownership
  • an amount that Silver had previously paid for a single piece of furniture — Enquiring minds want to know: What was that piece of furniture?
    • Added. - EG
  • However, this included only the amount owed to the Open Land Trust, not the price of the buildings and land themselves. — What does this mean? You said that the trust had an easement over (part of) the property, not that anything was owed to it. Do you mean they sold only the part of the land over which the trust held an easement? Which portion was this?
    • To clarify, this amount was a donation to the trust that was included as a term of the sale. Sometimes, the terms of a property sale in the US require unusual stipulations, such as a required donation to some organization or a battle reenactment on the lawn. - EG
Purchase and initial renovation
  • Silver decided to purchase Auldbrass in December 1986 — Decided to, or did?
    • He did; I've fixed it. - EG
  • Silver obtained 55 acres (22 ha) for a total cost of $130,000 or $148,000 — Is that in addition to the first 35 acres, or including them? Same question for the price.
    • For both, 55 acres is the cumulative amount (including the first 35 acres), not an incremental addition. - EG
  • $100,000 can take an inflation template.
    • There already is one (in a footnote, to avoid clutter), but I've moved it closer to the actual dollar amount. - EG
  • Is Scott McNair notable in any way, or just a property manager?
    • The latter. - EG
  • As part of his purchase, Silver had to finish renovating the plantation house within three years of buying the plantation. — Who set this condition? Why? Were there any ramifications if he didn't succeed?
    • The source indicates that this was also a term of the sale. In US law, if an obligation is not fulfilled, the other party to the agreement can sue for breach of contract. - EG
  • An unbuilt swimming pool from the original design was completed — Completed, or built from scratch?
    • Built from scratch. I've fixed it. - EG
  • Silver, who sought to replicate the original design as closely as possible, bought two vehicles that Wright had owned just so he could examine the paint color. — Gotta admire the dedication. Any word on what the vehicles were, and how they helped in the process (i.e., why was their color relevant)?
    • The source says In his quest for the perfect, most authentic shade of Taliesin red, a brick red that Wright favored for his fleet of cars (paint was otherwise anathema for Wright). So I've added that. - EG
1990s renovations
  • additional land next to the plantation — Any word on how much, and if this was part of the original site?
    • Unfortunately, the exact area isn't specified. But it does say that the land was adjacent to Silver's original holdings, so yes, it was most likely part of the original site. - EG
  • Any reason for the minor modifications to their width and roof height?
    • Added the reasons. - EG
  • Was the floating dock on the river? Was it in the original plans?
    • Yes, and no, respectively. - EG
  • Is the South Carolina Nature Conservancy worthy of a red link?
    • Added. - EG
  • the section of the property abutting the Combahee River — Who owned this land?
    • It is a wildlife refuge owned by the government. But this isn't relevant to the article. - EG
2000s to present
  • Silver raised animals such as a hippo, lynx, oryx, and horses on the plantation. — Other than the horses, not exactly what you might expect to see on a southern plantation. Were separate enclosures built for them?
    • Unfortunately, the source doesn't say, nor did I find a source explaining whether this was the case. - EG
  • One of the outbuildings burned down in October 2024, causing $2 million in damage. — Has it been rebuilt? Also, neither the source's original link nor its archived one are working for me.
    • No, it has not, at least as far as I can tell. In any case, even if it were rebuilt, it takes time to get the necessary approvals, materials, etc. - EG
Architecture
  • General comment: Any reason there are so few photos of the plantation in the article? It's a private site, but given that it hosts tours every year, there must be lots of photographs out there. It looks like there are many appropriately licensed ones on Flickr.
    • I can't take pictures myself because it's physically impossible for me to get down there, but I'll see what I can do with regard to Flickr pics. - EG
  • none of the structures had interior partitions — Had, or have?
    • Have, I've fixed this. - EG
Exterior
  • The residence is topped by a copper roof with a blue-green patina resembling a tree canopy; originally, it was colored robin egg blue. — Why was it changed from blue to green? Is the roof original, given that you said other elements for which copper was intended had to be redesigned with wood due to war shortages?
    • The source explicitly says that the robin-egg blue roof was made of copper, so yes, this seems to be the original roof. The oxidation to blue-green is consistent with the natural aging of copper. - EG
Interior
  • the same motifs as the facade — The arrow-like ones?
    • Yes. - EG
  • Any word on how much of the original furniture remains?
    • Unfortunately, I haven't found anything about this. - EG
  • arranged at irregular angle — at an irregular angle, or at irregular angles?
    • The plural. - EG
  • The plantation house's other rooms are also arranged around the brick fireplace — Meaning the other rooms also have brick fireplaces, or meaning that the one in the living room centers the other rooms? Edit: Now I see that, a few sentences on, you say Each of the rooms originally had a fireplace with a tall, shallow hearth to allow the fires to be built vertically. After the Stevens family sold the house, the hearths in some of these rooms were modified to allow larger fires. I thus assume you mean each of the other rooms also had a brick fireplace. I would place all these sentences together.
    • So basically, there is a single shaft (or I should say chimney) which contains multiple openings for all these brick fireplaces. I've clarified that they are arranged around the shaft. - EG
  • were restored in the late 20th century — By Silvers?
    • Yes, I've fixed it. - EG
  • The kitchen itself — Is this referring to the space which became the kitchen? Meaning that, originally, the kitchen was intended to be in the plantation house and the room that became the kitchen was meant to be a breakfast room, but that the latter was turned into the kitchen?
    • It's referring to the space in the pavilion that eventually became a kitchen. - EG
  • glass walls were installed during Silver's renovation — Why?
    • It was to enclose the breezeway, I've fixed this. - EG
  • here was a grill in the breezeway — A grill, a grille, or a grill?
    • A cooking grill. - EG
Other buildings
  • three other buildings — Which were...?
    • There is disagreement over the nature of these three buildings. Please see footnote [f] (which explains the disagreement). One source says that all three buildings were cottages, while another source refers to these as two cottages and an office. - EG
  • several other structures were destroyed by the 1952 fire — Which were...?
    • Clarified. - EG
  • Except for the staff cottages — Are these the "three other buildings"?
    • Please see my comment two points above. - EG
Thanks for the initial review. Because I know this will come up: I'm not sure about the details of why there were significant cost overruns for the 1980s-1990s renovation, other than Joel Silver's desire to replicate the original design closely; close replication always inflates costs of renovations. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:23, 24 June 2026 (UTC)
Thanks for the additional comments. I'll have more time to address them in depth tomorrow.
As for the Sotheby's catalog, I get the error "Unable to find libraries on WorldCat with this item." when looking at your links on WorldCat (which is weird since I'm in New York City, not in some territory where WorldCat is banned or restricted). The research catalog for my library doesn't give me much hope either, but at least I can ILL it, if I can get WorldCat to work. That being said, the Sotheby's catalog is such a minor issue that I think this is one of these things we could go without for GA level. if ILL doesn't work out. – Epicgenius (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
WorldCat now sometimes requires you to log in to see details; do you have an account (or can you create one, which is free), and if so, can you try logging in? (Sometimes it will also display an error message, which normally fixes itself it you hit the "Retry" button next to it.) The first OCLC link above shows 13 libraries with it, the closest being in Philadelphia. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:28, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
I tried that with an account. Strangely, it did show up when I signed out. I can try again later, but again, this issue seems relatively minor compared with the amount of time it would take me to (1) request the ILL, (2) figure out a day that I can go to the library to look at it, and (3) actually look at it. Epicgenius (talk) 00:13, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
As you probably know by now, not all my comments during a review are intended to reflect GA requirements; my focus is on those things I think would make an article better. Auction catalogues frequently do have interesting things to show, however. They can be a pain to track down but I normally find it to be worthwhile. --Usernameunique (talk) 00:22, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
That's fair. It's just that this level of research is seemingly more suited for FA level or a research paper. For GA level, the article just has to meet the broadness criterion. It'd be nice to have the auction catalog, but this is a lot of work just to add a tiny bit more detail to the claim "Dozens of pieces from Auldbrass were auctioned off". – Epicgenius (talk) 01:04, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
@Usernameunique: Thanks for the review. I've addressed all the points you raised above. For the ILL thing, I'll let you know whether or not I can get it in the next week. Epicgenius (talk) 23:29, 28 June 2026 (UTC)